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 Post subject: Re: League of Legends revisited
PostPosted: May 14th, 2017, 6:13 am 
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ops i forgot about the thread.

Danno wrote:
@Newb support: Sounds like being an assistant who is there for the whole match to learn, but barely does anything. Maybe that would be fine if I was actually interested in learning all the ins and outs of the game. Doesn't sound engaging enough 2 me. sup is probably the most important role that no one wants to play. you do a lot if you're good at the role. I actually enjoy playing it quite a bit when i have a partner that I can trust

@Retreating: I only played matches against other human players, as I recall. Whether they're experienced or not, doesn't change that retreating is an essential strategy in the game (unless you're one of the top 100 players in the world i ges). And the concept of constant retreating does not tickle my fancy. It happens, but a lot less often than you think.

@Sword enthusiast: It's not that I'll enjoy any game as long as my character has a sword. Take Mitsurugi in Soul Calibur, for example. He's just a plain ol' badass since he can change his sword stances, allowing him to slice up his opponents quickly in several different ways. The way he fights is unique to someone with a sword. Your Leona character sounds like she could be using a club, hammer, axe, or any other weapon since her specialty is stunning opponents. The sword is for decoration, not to make you an expert swordwielding badass. in this case the weapon she's holding doesn't really matter, no. There are some champs tho where it does, e.g. ashe's bow, diana's sword, etc. It's mostly just class/character fantasy.

@Killstealing: I don't think I could ever enjoy the concept after living through the struggle in Spawn of Satan. Of course, there's no moral dilemma here since you're killstealing an NPC. Still, it strikes me as taking little skill or effort compared to actually fighting your own battle from start to finish. Try doing it competitively and tell me it takes little skill. it's a lot harder than it looks,
I promise.


@Stats (Street Fighter): Whether a Hadouken is stronger than a Sonic Boom is beside the point. I'm thinking of it more like... as if Ryu beat Guile in the 1st round, now Ryu has double attack power for the 2nd round, making this round simply unfair for Guile. He has a greater chance of losing not because he needs to get good at the game, but because the odds are stacked against him. It's not that stats are inherently a bad thing. It's fine as long as it stays balanced. Stats ruin PvP when one player is allowed to have a blatant advantage over another. It might help then to consider Laugh Out Loud (L.O.L. for short) a single round match that you have a chance of coming back from if you lose, then. Say it was Ryu vs. Guile and they only had 1 stock each or w/e, causing them to have a sudden death match. Ryu beats Guile, meaning that he's pretty much won, but now Guile has a chance to come back and win the match, albeit at a disadvantage. If Guile can do it,
bonus points for doing it under such huge pressure. If he can't, well, Ryu already won anyway.


I should also mention that I dislike this type of cooldown system. Cooldowns are okay when:
-You have plenty of other skills to choose from.
-The cooldown periods are generally short.
-The game has such a smooth flow that you don't have to watch and see if your cooldown period is over yet; you can keep playing without any inconvenience.
-You don't have to go out of your way to wait out a cooldown period (such as waiting in a safe area for 20 seconds doing nothing, or kiting enemies in circles).

With so few skills available in L.O.L., cooldowns end up making combat annoying. When everything's on cooldown, you either run or you resort to auto-attacks. It's hard for me to decide which is more boring: auto-attacks or doing nothing while you wait for cooldowns. Of course the game would be broken as hell if someone could re-raise every 10 seconds, no need 2 go there. Combat would have to be remade from scratch to somehow remove the annoyance of cooldowns while still being the big hit Laugh Out Loud (L.O.L. for short) of Laugh Out Loud (L.O.L. for short) is. I see your point, but the cooldowns aren't as bad as you think they are. There are items that reduce your cooldowns by a %, making it to where late game, depending on your champ, you'll pretty much always have at least 1 ability ready to use. Waiting for 20 seconds of doing nothing for a cooldown to replenish will literally never happen unless you're playing toxic waste

@Itemize: So you aren't free to pick the same things as your teammates because the lack of diversity makes for a bad strategy. idk, too many rules and guidelines for a player to truly be free to pick the items they want. There's no fun factor here for me. Your fate is sealed at champ select most of the time. If your entire team picks mages, you're ... Anyhow, my point stands. Good day.. If your entire team picks physical dmg champs, you're ... Anyhow, my point stands. Good day.. Unless you resign to playing only ONE champ forever, no matter the circumstances, then you'll have other options to choose from in champ select that can broaden the spectrum of your team's attacks. I have probably 20 champs that I play semi-regularly and enjoy playing - that'd be something like 5 champs for every role. I have plenty of options. It's not limiting at all.

@Variation: League's combat itself is far more simplified (read: auto-attacks + only 4 skills). There are less variations of combos that you can utilize. If they use 1 skill, there are only 3 different skills you can expect to be used after that. In a fighting game, when your opponent uses 1 move, there are at least 10 different moves they can use afterwards (or they can even just use the same move again).
In this way, I find League's combat to lack freedom and depth by comparison. In a PvP based game, I find this to be especially problematic. That's not to say it's impossible to have fun with simpler battle systems. I enjoyed Spawn of Satan's arena where you only get 1 type of attack. I did not enjoy Reague's combat when I played it, though. wrong again. Not your fault, just lack of game knowledge. I hate this character, but Yasuo is just one example. His Q actually transforms after 2 successful uses, causing the next time you use it to launch a tornado. A fairly simple example, but just goes to show there's not just 4 skills. There are some champs that have 2 forms (Elise/Nidalee) that each have wildly varying abilities. In that way, there are basically 6 moves instead of just 4. There's a lot more complexity than you realize

Also note that picking a "spam champ" and spamming 4 skills repeatedly wouldn't impress me either. Too repetitive. fair enough, but some people love them

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 Post subject: Re: League of Legends revisited
PostPosted: May 15th, 2017, 10:21 pm 
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@Support: So it's fun to do if you have the will/desire to learn and put the time/effort into learning it. You could basically say the same about anything. Why don't you learn art, programming, sewing, woodworking, etc.?
I could see this working better for someone who already enjoys League since you'd already know a lot about the game and have to put less effort in to learning how to support properly. By the sounds of it, it isn't a good gateway for people who already dislike the game.

@Retreating: Even if I only had to retreat from 40% of battles, I would still find it annoying. It would have to be a somewhat rare occurrence for me to be okay with the idea. I think it's safe to say retreating happens on a fairly frequent basis at the very least.
To put it another way, I'd enjoy a game more when it gives me the option to pursue an enemy if I'm at 90% HP. There are risks with entering enemy territory, but I should be in good enough shape to mess things up a bit before falling back. In League, it's impossible to do this. Running through the turret once will probably take half your HP, making it so you're barely even a threat behind enemy lines. If you retreated afterwards, the turret would finish you off before you get back to your side. The circumstances in which you can pursue an enemy are extremely limited.

@Swords: I suppose my criteria for a "class fantasy" is a bit different. It's less about wielding a particular weapon or having certain stats; it's more about the role feeling authentic. I used Ashe at some point when I played and thought the skill with aiming the bow was alright. It felt more authentic than the other characters I used, at least. Still, it wasn't incredibly engaging or interesting to me. Also I prefer swords.

@Killstealing: Compared to killing an enemy from start to finish, it's a watered down experience. Its purpose is for grinding, which is something I'd like to avoid entirely when gaming.

@Stats (Street Fighter): I'd actually prefer the Street Fighter example here. Win or lose, we fought on a level playing field and now I can do the same in a rematch or against someone else. Besides, if I was Guile and got my hat handed to me by Ryu the first time, what's the value in having a second chance where my character is gimped? There would be little chance to turn things around unless I had a 5 minute grinding montage before round 2.

@Cooldowns: If I notice the cooldowns, the system is bad in my eyes. I'd rather have the cooldowns exist as if the game is making a subtle suggestion not to abuse overpowered skills. I don't want it to be limiting my options.
The death cooldown period also sucks. Are you new to the game or just plain bad at it? Well, get good, newb. You get to sit here doing literally nothing before you are allowed to respawn. Let that be a lesson to you. Thanks, game. I love being punished in real life for playing.

@Itemize: I'm not sure how all that helps me with enjoying freedom.

@Variation: Maybe the quantity of skills is high enough for meaningful PvP to be possible. The gameplay style of League is not satisfying to me, though. The fact that you play with the mouse doesn't help. It's a huge clickfest and it kinda strains my hand. To be honest, even if each character had 20 skills available on hotkeys with cooldowns, I probably still wouldn't enjoy it.

Hotkeys convey a certain lack of freedom. To me, this is where a game like Smash Bros really shines. You have an the sky is not falling stick, 2 attack buttons, and one guard button. Simple, yet there are so many ways to combine these buttons to do different things. The the sky is not falling stick is key to everything you do; using it to walk is also the most basic and fundamental thing you can do in any video game. This basis for video games combined with a single attack button allows for a ridiculous amount of freedom in the way you can attack.
When someone's attacking you, you can try to roll away with guard+left or right the sky is not falling, you can dodge with guard+down the sky is not falling (or dodge in the air with just the guard button), you can just plain guard it on the ground, you can jump, or you can even simply run/walk away. When someone has you in a combo, you can shift your direction away from your opponent, gradually escaping between each hit, you can try to hit back, you can try to sneak in a dodge. You always have a ton of control over your own character, like it becomes an extension of yourself.

Then you've got Reague. Click here and your character walks here on its own. Click the enemy and your character will start attacking on its own. Push the hotkey button to make your character activate one predetermined attack, which you can only use every 20 seconds.

For PvP, I'd much rather play a game where I AM the character. I don't want to be observing my character.

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 Post subject: Re: League of Legends revisited
PostPosted: June 21st, 2017, 3:34 pm 
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it's hilarious to me that this thread is still being posted on



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 Post subject: Re: League of Legends revisited
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2017, 6:46 am 
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Brandon wrote:
it's hilarious to me that this thread is still being posted on

this thread was started, and last posted on, last month

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 Post subject: Re: League of Legends revisited
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2017, 12:32 pm 
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Scubastove wrote:
Brandon wrote:
it's hilarious to me that this thread is still being posted on

this thread was started, and last posted on, last month

oops i thought this was the thread where people were mostly arguing it was bad while i badly argued it wasn't

forgot about the locking of outdated threads



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